Financial Planning

Mike Ankers is joined by Paul Manders and Chris Jermyn from Fairway Wealth Management at National Bank Financial. Chris is the newest member of the team, an accomplished financial planning professional and someone who believes deeply in the positive outcomes from proper planning. In this episode, Paul
and Chris discuss planning at a high level, and the benefits to having a dedicated resource on the team to help more clients. We dive into the process of planning, and what clients should expect from a great experience.

National Bank Financial - Wealth Management (NBFWM) is a division of National Bank Financial Inc. (NBF), as well as a trademark owned by National Bank of Canada (NBC) that is used under license by NBF. NBF is a member of the Canadian Investment Regulatory Organization (CIRO) and the Canadian Investor Protection Fund (CIPF), and is a wholly-owned subsidiary of NBC, a public company listed on the Toronto Stock Exchange (TSX: NA).

The opinions, endorsements, and recommendations expressed in my profile do not necessarily reflect those of National Bank Financial. This site and electronic communications will be monitored by National Bank Financial for compliance purposes.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:19

Welcome to partnering with great people, a podcast by Fairway Wealth Management and National Bank Financial. Guided by the mission of partnering with great people to preserve and grow generational wealth, this podcast spotlights the partnerships that are important to the team and their clients and who ultimately help deliver exceptional advice and support to their clients. Today I'm joined by Paul Manders and Chris German. Paul, as everyone knows, is an accomplished advisor whose advice focuses on financial planning and creating positive outcomes for clients. Fairway has long put financial planning at the core of their client relationships. And as everyone knows, they're a team of experts. And the most recent expert they've added to the team is Chris. Chris German is a certified financial planner, a registered retirement consultant, and someone who takes a lot of satisfaction from getting to know clients and helping them prepare for a successful future. Welcome, Chris.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:07

Chris, for people who don't know you, can you give us a little bit of your background and your personal story about how you chose to become a financial planner?

SPEAKER_01 1:14

Yeah, so I think I'm gonna go back just a little bit. I was thinking about this, uh, you know, preparing for my first podcast. Um, this is a really cool place, by the way. So I want to go back to the 80s, and I just remember going in with my dad, and I think it was mostly my dad, just going into a bank branch and just seeing those different surroundings and and thinking about as you get older, you know, what do you want to do? So I I just remember that experience and that, you know, way back in the 80s, and then a little bit later getting my first job, you know, just the power of earning money for the first time. So I think my first job was lawn cutting. So very first thing, making uh seven dollars to cut a lawn, and I think they gave me uh a can of pop. But I just remember it was not so much money, it was just saving, and just remembered it compounding and just the feeling that you got of just saving. And what I noticed was just talking with other friends and just growing up that maybe not everybody was as good at saving as maybe I was. So I remember like I was the one that maybe had a little bit more money around and and they didn't have money, so they'd come to me, Chris. Do you got a loan? Can I borrow some money? Oh, sure. You know, okay. Just just some of that type of thing. And then so I went to school for financial planning, and then you know, the next thing was got a job. So I got a job at the bank. I had pretty much every position I think you could have in a bank. I started out as a teller, and then it was a loans officer, and then it was a portfolio manager. And what I found was just in all those different roles of how impactful it was, just having conversations with clients and finding out uh what is important. So just the power of wealth planning, no matter what type of role it was, and just getting to know the clients. So that's how I kind of got into it. And earlier in my career, I had uh one of my bosses come up to me and kind of tap me on the shoulder and said, I think you doing financial planning full time is something that we would like you to do. So I said, Okay, uh, we'll give that a go. And it's been outstanding since.

SPEAKER_02 3:13

You started off as a teller and I did too. And the one thing I learned is the people that looked like they had money didn't, and the people that didn't look like they had money had a lot of it. Right. Did you have the same experience?

SPEAKER_01 3:23

Yes. And uh that's very true because the people that look like that they didn't have money, they're the ones that are putting it away. You know, they're not being flashy, they're saving it, and uh yeah, that's how it it usually goes.

SPEAKER_00 3:35

You grew up in a relatively small town, as did both of us. Like, so that experience with the banks, was it like seeing going in with your money, depositing the money? Like the bank was the serious place in town. That's kind of where your career sort of led you was to being kind of the serious person with the money uh in town.

SPEAKER_01 3:55

You're right. Like it is being a you know, in a small town, like there's not much there. Like that wasn't like an event where you know, get to go with dad, we're gonna drive up town. My hometown is Goddard's, get to go to the bank today. So yeah, yeah, Paul. That was uh Did you update your passbook? And you would that's right, you would update the passbook and do all that. So I thought, you know, this is a cool environment. My family, my dad, he was a mechanic, and I got to see him doing things like hands-on, but I just knew in the early days that you know I wasn't gonna be the one that was gonna be fixing an engine of a car or doing something along those lines. I was always much better in school around numbers instead of maybe doing something hands-on. I wasn't the shop guy in high school, definitely.

SPEAKER_02 4:37

Well, one of the value propositions of Fairway Wealth Management is building a team of experts so that clients have a variety of people to go through no matter what they're facing. Can you walk us through the decision about adding a financial planner to your team and ultimately how you landed on choosing Chris for this important role?

SPEAKER_00 4:53

Well, we've, you know, our really mission is to provide peace of mind. And so that obviously involves investing and sort of growing assets for people, but it's not the most important thing for a lot of people. Like we can't just have a target to just keep growing it. We have to know why it's important for them to have this certain amount of money or some additional amount. So we've really always sort of focused on what the money is for, not just growing it, but trying to find out their psychology. Um, there's a book, The Psychology of Money, and it really gets into what is enough for you and what's enough in terms of assets, what's enough in terms of risk, and having those conversations. So that's the way we're wired. It's in our DNA to sort of think that way. And we've always had somebody doing planning, and we've had a long partnership with Marie Blanchette, who was and still is a financial planner for some of our client families. But for us, she is actually working for the firm. So she's a resource that National Bank Financial provides, and a lot of her time was spent with ours. But as we've grown and her business has grown, and in a great way, a lot of other advisors have embraced financial planning, which we have been doing for a long time. So she got busier. She's a financial planner, which means she probably has a great financial plan and she will sometime retire. And we have to be ready for the next families that need a plan and make it easy. And we had a target, or we want more of our clients to have plans, not just the bigger ones. And, you know, as you know, we focus on multi-generation, and those next generations need plans as well. And so we just knew we were at a point that we needed to have our own internal planner that uh just worked with our clients. And Chris fit that bill. Well, and it's funny, I think we've always done a good job of looking forward and sort of thinking what the person we need next. And we kind of wait. We're a collection of a lot of people that we already knew, and we wait until we find the right person to fit the role that we know that we eventually need. And then Chris was right under our nose, it turned out. Chris's wife, Nicole, has been working with our team for a couple of years, and of course, she was introduced by another key member of our team, Sue Lidbetter. So it's always these networks that we have. And so we spend some time at a few charity events that Chris came to as part of the team, as Nicole's husband, and then we get talking, and you know, for us, it's about fitting the culture of our team as well as our clients, and so it was just a right fit at the right time. Yeah. I love it.

SPEAKER_02 7:28

Great people attract great people. Yeah, let's hope. Yeah. Chris, financial planning means a lot of things to a lot of people. And in my own experience, there's a lot of confusion out there about what is a financial plan. So some people say a financial plan is, oh, you have this much in retirement, you can take out this much. And it's as simple as that. I've also seen entire binders dedicated to financial plans. On a very simple level, for somebody who's never done any financial planning and might be intimidated by it. What does financial planning mean to you? And can you share a little bit more about what that process looks like?

SPEAKER_01 8:00

Yeah. So wealth planning, financial planning, it's all centered around what is important to them. So it can be things as simple as buying their next car, it can be around their family, it can be around estate planning. So it can be around a bunch of different things. But one of the big things is really wealth planning is it just starts with a conversation. And as you mentioned, you know, sometimes can it be intimidating? And it can be with some people, but we really want to strip that back and not have it be intimidating because really it is all about a conversation and it can cover a lot of different things. And I did touch on it briefly, but you know, it can be as simple as a client is in retirement and how do I get access to my money? A lot of clients have questions around that. It's not always about do I have enough? It can be a lot of other things. The other thing that's coming up a lot with clients is around family and when is a good time to give. And so we walk families through that. What different accounts can we take funds from? Because they all have different tax consequences, basically. So it can be around as simple as giving while they're living, not so much on the estate. But the other thing that you know we get into is taxes. So from a drawdown strategy, when is a good time to take from different accounts? So it can be a lot of different things. The one thing though, going through the process, if you take the time, it does create clarity. And it can be, you know, as simple as making decisions easier for the future. So taking the time now. So if something comes up that you know you already have that plan and you know what to do, you're not always starting from scratch. Right. And at the end of the day, hopefully it reduces stress and just makes things easier.

SPEAKER_02 9:37

So for somebody just getting started, how do they start that conversation? Whether they have an advisor or not, how do they approach somebody and say, I need a plan or I need help?

SPEAKER_01 9:46

I think just asking the questions right. So I think everybody should have a plan. And again, it doesn't have to be that big drawn-out plan, but it can be just answering those simple questions. So just going through the financial planning process, just for the client to have a clearer picture, it makes decisions easier, it reduces stress. And the one last thing I'll say is sometimes they do think it can be intimidating because they're thinking that they're gonna have to get on a budget and they're you know, they're gonna have to not enjoy life now. That isn't the case. So I don't want clients to think that if they're going into a financial plan, they're gonna have to get on that budget and not enjoy things. It's really about today is as much as it is for tomorrow.

SPEAKER_02 10:25

You make a really good point there about restricting yourself, right? It's not a financial diet, it's a plan. And, you know, one of my own family, we look at travel and family time as an investment in and of itself. So our goal as a family, and we have family meetings, and Paul and I have talked about that on a previous podcast, is every year we set our financial goals and then we set our personal goals. So we try to balance saving for tomorrow and living for today. And a good plan can help you do both.

SPEAKER_00 10:50

Well, and it's the trade-offs of things. Like it's not one cost this, it's what's important and trading the two things off. And uh back to the planning part. Like, I don't know that I've ever had one that really got into the budget, but it's more about the end state than it is the current state, and trying to just get some goalposts out there to make sure that you're kind of at least making progress directionally in the right way, and it's never perfect because life changes and you go from there.

SPEAKER_01 11:18

And that's the big thing too, is just to get that process started. And I always say to clients as well that you know, wealth planning it is a journey, it isn't a one and done. So it's not you come in and you give all this information and we put it all together and we present it to you at one time and we cover everything from retirement, estate, taxes, succession planning. That all can't be done in one meeting. So it really is a journey. So the important thing is to get that plan started and then we build upon it. So I say to some clients, like, this is your wealth plan 101, and we're gonna be moving to 201 and 301. Nor does a client probably want to sit there for three hours and sit there and listen. So it's something where it is definitely a journey and it is over time. But the most important thing is to get it started.

SPEAKER_02 12:01

That's really good advice, Chris. I know life happens. I've got a couple of good examples. I have a really good advisory team, Fairway Wealth Management and National Bank Financial. And uh, back in, I think it was 2013 or 2014, we bought a cottage and it was just down from Paul, and he actually brought it up and he said, uh, you should look at your life insurance now because you've taken on a mortgage for this cottage. And like I'm life insurance licensed, and I didn't even think of that myself. So life events change it. And speaking of life events, like I had cancer four and a half years ago, and it was a really powerful thing to know that I had insurance in place and my family was fine, regardless of the outcome, because we'd planned for it. And you know, you write that check for insurance every year and you think, God, that's a lot of money. And I'll tell you, every dime was worth it that moment driving home in my car. And so, you know, for me, financial planning just means like I I love that you say 101 and 201. It started with this, you know, we were just married and we want to save for the future, and then we have kids. Well, now we need an RESP. And uh most recently I just got them life insured. And a plan changes with time. Absolutely. Yeah, Paul, are more people looking for financial planning, or is that something that's new, or if people always look for it? How do your clients approach it with you?

SPEAKER_00 13:11

Well, I don't know that anyone's looking. Like no one's Googling financial planning or financial planner, I think. Like I think in general, they have questions that maybe their accountant doesn't answer directly, or their lawyer doesn't answer directly, and it kind of relates to financial stuff. It's more like it's the main question. Am I okay? And then it's am I okay given that this is important to me and this is important to me, and my kids need this, or so it's all part of, as Chris says, a conversation that kind of gets formalized. We know that there's probably 10 main things that somebody should look at over their lifetime financially, and we just try to keep them rolling at the right time to make sure that we're answering the question that they have now, and then also getting them ready and planting the seed for the questions we know they're likely to have the next time we meet, or the next time something happens, either markets or a kid gets married and a business gets sold, that sort of stuff. So these documents that we call a financial plan are sometimes just a one-pager and sometimes they're something more extensive, and we're working with the accountants and the lawyers as well to try to steer it, but I don't know that clients are out there looking for planning, they're just looking for answers.

SPEAKER_02 14:29

So you drive that conversation. So obviously, yeah, I know lots of people who have a plan in their head, but not on paper. But at some point you're gonna drive a client to say, hey, I think you need a written plan and we'll figure this out definitively.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

Yeah. And I think I'm just thinking of recent conversations I've had that, you know, and I guess that happens with 30 some years in the business. Like some of these people you talked about getting their kids educated, then you talked to them about retirement, and now you're talking to them about giving money to their kids in advance and giving money to their important charities, all of that stuff probably didn't actually have a written document to it, but we were checking the financial planning items as we went with those client families.

SPEAKER_02 15:12

For a lot of people who go into a financial planning process, I think you know, we've talked about some of the fear and some of the apprehension. But you know, one thing that I think a good financial planner does is it normalizes life, right? So people feel like, oh, I don't want to disclose things because I probably spend too much or whatever. But financial planning can really uncover a lot of positive things. Chris, can you talk about some of the opportunities, the common ones that you uncover in a financial plan?

SPEAKER_01 15:35

Yeah. So I kind of see myself sometimes as putting that puzzle together, like a whole bunch of different pieces and putting it together. And the cool thing is most of the time when we're putting that puzzle together, it is a beautiful picture. So I kind of see it sometimes as like a piece of art. And you'll see sometimes in my presentations, I'll have a nice colorful graph up on the screen. And by looking at it and like looking at art, for me, seeing there's a lot of different things in that picture. And by going through that process of putting it together and building the picture and putting all the pieces together, it does identify what is the client really doing well. What is some of the things that the client can maybe approve on? And when we look at trying to approve upon, it's really taking a look at, well, what are some of the tools that maybe we're not using for this client, or what are some of the tools that they have access to that they're not taking advantage of? So we get in a lot of those conversations around taking a look at the picture and just identifying things. Here's some of the things that you know we can do to help your situation. Some of the simple things, of course, people know what TFSAs are, but some don't. So TFSAs, RSBs, a lot of our clients have corporations and sometimes they're not quite too sure of why they have that corporation or or how to use it effectively. So again, we can walk them through. And uh, if you're taking a look at my picture in the chart, it'll have all different colors. We can just identify on that picture that their corporation is a certain color and it's there for a purpose. And so we will help clients or sometimes remind clients why they have a corporation and talk about all those little things. So, going back to your question, you know, we take a look at the positive, sometimes remind them, but also take a look at some gaps that maybe they're not using all the time.

SPEAKER_00 17:09

And you said puzzle, like it's bringing all the different pieces together that they oftentimes they don't have somebody else that's actually putting it all together because you know, some accountants are just doing the accounting side and some lawyers are just doing that, and then they end up with a corporation because their business is doing quite well, and we want to be able to put it together so that they can just go back to whatever they're doing, either running their business or spending time with their family or whatever, so that they know that the pieces fit together and kind of leave them with the one or two things that they should probably work on till the next time or focus on or think about.

SPEAKER_02 17:42

There's a gentleman I have done business with in the past or work with in the past, and he's very, very wealthy and successful. And he told me something really interesting at one point, and he said, My advisor helped me execute it on an insurance strategy. He said it's brilliant. The next brilliant thing he does is remind me every two years why I have it. So it makes sense in the moment and you get it and you wrap your head around it. But these things are complex, and like you say, they go back to running their business and things like that, and you forget why you have these things in place. And speaking of executing strategy, Paul, plans are only as good as what you do about them in a lot of cases. And you know, you can have a great plan, but if you don't do anything about it, it's just a plan. What does Fairway do to help clients make sure that not just they get a plan in place, but they do the things that they need to do to make it a reality?

SPEAKER_00 18:25

Yeah, and we're kind of coaches. I mean, we're not principles, like we can't grade people on these things or whatever. We're coaching them along. And we've always had something that we call the review process, and it's kind of evolved as our team has evolved, and that every client has an advisor and associate that's looking at that account at least every three months. And oftentimes a lot of our clients own the same sort of ingredients in their portfolio, so that's getting managed daily, but their individual accounts are getting looked at regularly through this review process, and most of the time that involves a phone call and it's a check-in, and we're asking questions. I mean, our business has evolved. It used to be, hey, here's what your performance is, and here's how your accounts have done, but now it's more about, hey, you already kind of know. I mean, everyone's kind of gotten more educated on the market side. So that part is less a part of the conversation, and it's more about, hey, how are the kids doing and anything changing with your life? We always talk about cash flow because that really drives things. Like, are you spending more money or saving more money? And that kind of triggers these conversations that we'll know, hey, you had a plan a year ago, let's revisit it, or hey, you're in the very early stages of talking about not owning your business. Okay, maybe we should update the plan, that sort of thing. So it's the review schedule and the constant contact makes it sort of automatic that we're always having those probing conversations and questions that allow us to pull out whether a plan needs to be implemented or updated or discussed.

SPEAKER_02 19:55

So that's the value of good advice, having somebody stay on top of it when you might not be on top of it.

SPEAKER_00 20:00

It well, and it's we've said it before, but it's kind of like we all know how we should eat and how we should exercise and things, but you know, we still need somebody to remind us, hold us accountable. And so to be very successful at this, you have to have somebody, a coach or whatever, that helps you implement, remind, whatever. But again, we're just trying to help them along and definitely point them in the right direction. And if they want our sleeves rolled up and helping or just directing, I mean that's how we operate.

SPEAKER_02 20:30

I had a business coach once that talked about the benefits of delegating so that you're doing what you're best at. And I tried to delegate diet and exercise. You know, this is a question that I I typically for those listeners, I send out some conversation starters in advance of an episode. And this isn't something that I've put on the thing, but Chris, how does putting a good financial plan in front of a client make you feel?

SPEAKER_01 20:51

Great question. That's why I get up every day. So that's what gets me out of bed. That's the purpose, right? So I get the opportunity to really get to know clients really well, build that trust, and really add value, right, to what they're going through. Uh, it could be my retirement is, you know, a year or two away. What does that look like? To losing a loved one and then having to redo their will and talk about things that are very sensitive. So it's a privilege to be able to have the role that I have and I look forward to it every day.

SPEAKER_02 21:19

And how do clients feel when you're done?

SPEAKER_01 21:20

So one of the big things when I'm done a plan, I always want to make sure that what was the purpose of them coming here and you know, having that conversation. So always going back to what is important to the client. So if we're there to talk about retirement, maybe they're retiring a couple years, I want to make sure before I leave that meeting that we've answered that question specifically and to let them know that they're gonna be okay. We talked about am I okay? Or it can be if we're going down the path of an estate conversation, we want them to know that their will is gonna be reflecting their wishes. Give them information that they probably don't know. An example of that would be a lot of clients don't know what their estate taxes are gonna be. So I wanna make sure that when they leave that meeting from an Estate planning conversation that they know what their taxes are going to be, they know that their wishes are going to be had and done throughout their lifetime. So it's really just that clarity piece and that peace of mind, again, no matter what the conversation is.

SPEAKER_02 22:12

Financial planning, just listening to the both of you speak, this is a business that a lot of people consider just a high IQ business. But I think to be a good financial planner, you need a lot of EQ.

SPEAKER_00 22:21

Yeah, like and I think we want them to feel in that moment they're in good shape. And if they're not in great shape, then it's here's what we need to do, and we're gonna help you do it. They probably are gonna forget it, but they're gonna know that we know. And when they need to sort of be reminded, we're here to say, Yeah, remember we talked about this and we got you here, and it's the feelings. It's strange, it's not the plan, it's the feelings that the plan sort of gives to families for sure.

SPEAKER_02 22:50

So my mom's also a client, full disclosure. And the best advice that I think she said she's ever gotten was from Paul, and he said, You should spend more money.

SPEAKER_00 22:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:59

And uh, she comes from a generation that doesn't spend a lot of money. She lives a very modest lifestyle, and she's taking two trips this year. And it's thanks to Paul calling her out of the blue and saying, Yeah, spend your money. And uh, I thought that was really, really powerful. That's not an IQ conversation. That's seeing somebody that should be enjoying the later years of their life.

SPEAKER_00 23:17

And that goes back to the very first answer, I think, which is we're not just growing the pile for them. We have to know what it's for. And eventually we know after 20 years of dealing with a client and we life expectancy, like this is all the stuff. The numbers behind the conversations, it's like, yeah, you should be spending money. You have to change your psychology to start to spend the money instead of just piling it up, sort of thing.

SPEAKER_02 23:40

It's so good. And I consider that conversation you had with her a success story. Chris, can you share a success story or two that you've seen with financial planning, whether it be financially successful or just how somebody felt at the end?

SPEAKER_01 23:50

Yeah, so there's a number of them. And I think going through the wealth planning process, everyone is gonna be a success for the client because they're gonna walk away knowing more. They're gonna have more clarity. So I think no matter what it is, how big or small, it's always gonna be successful. I met with a client there last week, and his big thing was he's now retiring and he wanted to purchase a big camper van or an RV because he wanted to travel. So looking at that client, we gave him solutions that he could make that purchase, paid literally no tax. And so he was really, really happy because that was a concern given his asset mix if that was gonna work. So again, big or small, we had another client that had lost a spouse. So again, that was a sensitive conversation, but you know, really just making sure that he's protected, that there's someone there that's gonna be able to execute the will if he is gone. So it can be quite complicated, but again, at the end of the day, uh we just want to make it simple and give clear solutions. The other thing is I just want to point out it's just not myself and Paul. We are supported by National Bank. So we do have people that are also experts in the tax field. So we're able to bring someone to come in that is an expert on tax. We have someone else that just joined our team who's also an expert in international tax, which you don't see everywhere. So someone that knows all the US law on tax and international, so that's pretty cool. And we also have estate lawyers on our team. So again, bringing in experts who is an estate lawyer around somebody's wealth plan and having someone take a look at somebody's will who has a legal background, that's very powerful too. So that's all a part of the wealth plan.

SPEAKER_02 25:26

Paul, what would you say to that? Have you had any success stories from planning that stick out to you?

SPEAKER_00 25:31

Yeah, and I guess it's just kind of our job. So we just kind of do it every day. And so the ones that stick out are ones that the clients have reached back out to us and reminded us because sometimes we need reminding that this is impactful to them. And I think of one widow, uh, and I'm not thinking of your mom, but a single woman who had accounts all over the place. We consolidated them for her, did the financial plan, and she got comfortable with travel. And then it turned into a bug, and she's traveling all the time. And so when she gets done one of those bucket list trips, she tends to send something that thanks us for both the portfolio part, but the feeling that she can go ahead and do these, and then it seems like every time she's on a trip, she's planning the next trip. So those are good. Like sometimes it's nice to get that feedback that it is working, all these things. And the other ones are you do a plan for mom and dad, they know and we know that they're comfortable, and then they're like, Hey, son or daughter is buying the business, they probably need a plan. And then by the time we're done, we're kind of doing plans for three generations in some cases, and those plans look different because they have different goals, but we can see the impact that we've had. Generation one is definitely okay, generation two knows they're going to be okay, and generation three says, Okay, the playbook is right there. Like, I'm just following what Fairway did with my parents and grandparents and go from there.

SPEAKER_02 26:53

That's interesting because again, you're planning for three different people with three completely different outlooks and timelines.

SPEAKER_00 26:58

Right. But the same spirit, like the same, yeah, they're the same values and things like that, and they kind of know how we've helped the generation before, and they get a little nudge from their parents as well. But it's just satisfying because it kind of just we haven't talked a lot about investing here, right? Like this, this is one of the reasons why I'm in the industry, is these parts because I mean the market's exciting, but it's not the kind of thing that keeps you motivated for 30, 40 years kind of thing. And so that's success stories for the client, but indirectly, the success stories for us is 20% of the time the market does scare us. Well, it doesn't really scare us anymore, but it can scare clients. And these plans have helped us save clients from doing things at those poor times when we know that their emotions are not working for them and they're definitely working against them. So I can definitely say that it has allowed us to keep more clients invested, which has meant more assets for them and their kids by bringing out the plan when things get scary to say, hey, no, you're gonna be fine. Remember, that's in the plan. We had all these other returns these other years. Okay, we've given some back. This will pass. And so I think for us, it's just allowed us to keep clients invested and they have more assets at the end of the day because of it.

SPEAKER_02 28:17

They often say, or I often say, I forget where I heard it, but stress comes from things you can't control. And what I'm hearing from you is that that plan helps them feel in control, which is which is really interesting.

SPEAKER_01 28:28

The other nice thing is plans are looking in the future, but the really cool part is if you've gone through that process, and what I love to do with clients is taking a look, bringing the plan and reviewing with them what did we talk about two or three or five or 10 years ago. And going what Paul was saying, it is really impactful to remind clients. We did a plan for you five years ago and you're actually ahead of target. So when the markets are a little bit bumpy, we can still tell them you're still two, three, four hundred thousand above plan or whatever the number is. So again, it lets clients kind of know where they're going, but where they were. And I think knowing where you were can be just as impactful because it just gives you that peace of mind that you were here and now you're here. And by knowing that, then it gives you more confidence that the future will be nice and rosy or yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 29:12

That's some really good wisdom. Context matters because people do forget how far things have come. Paul, you said something interesting, and you've used this before, it's all about trade-offs. And years ago, when I was an advisor, I had a client who was sort of right on the line. She wanted to retire and live a bit of a bigger life than she could have probably afforded and I remember asking you for advice. And I'm like, I don't want to tell her not to spend her money, but I gotta at least do my job and warn her that if you continue down this path, and you said, Mike, trade-off is the key word. If you do want your new truck or your big vacation, if you go back to the plan and that throws her under the line, the trade-off is gonna have to be a lower income in the future. And that word trade-off has stuck with me ever since then.

SPEAKER_00 29:53

Well, it's interesting because they're not all rosy, as you say. Like sometimes you are having difficult conversations. I find that's my word that I use all the time. And with those types of clients, you actually have to have it sort of every year, you know, like and you just keep reminding that that decision is gonna cost something, but that's your decision to make. It's the trade-off that you're making because there's a lot of pushback sometimes on these plans because we're both certified financial planners. These plans have to go out to age 95. A lot of people care a lot less about what they can spend at age 94 and 95, and a lot more about what they want to spend at 64 and 65. So that's the as I say, the trade-offs that we're always talking about.

SPEAKER_02 30:32

No, it's it's such good advice. Any last words of wisdom for people that want to know about financial planning or want to dig in more or get started, Chris?

SPEAKER_01 30:40

I just want to reinforce the fact that again, just to get the planning started. It is just a conversation. Come on into our office or set up a Teams meeting, just have the conversation started and we'll go from there.

SPEAKER_00 30:51

Paul, any last words of wheel? I was just excited, like just listening to Chris. Like it's exciting for Fairway to have somebody that 100% of their time is going to be on planning because it's always been a part of all of our time, but we also have other things to do, market meetings with next generation clients or whatever. But Chris is 100% on planning. And so we're excited that more people are going to get access to that and have more of their questions answered, the ones they have now and the ones that are coming up for them.

SPEAKER_02 31:18

I think the most powerful thing I took from this conversation is a line you used a few minutes ago, Chris, which is every plan is a success for the client. That really stands out to me for so many reasons because just starting something makes a difference. So I'm a firm believer that everybody should have a plan. It doesn't have to be a binder, but at least think through some scenarios of things that are important to you, whether it be taking care of your family or for business owners, disability is a big issue. Maybe it's just having disability insurance in case something happens to you, but it is really important. And our industry does a good job of providing these things, but sometimes clients have to go looking for it. So for anybody listening that doesn't have a plan, I think you should ask your advisor to say, I'd like to talk to you about one and just start that conversation. And that's good. It's kind of like going to the gym for the first time. You got to sign up for the membership, but then you got to go. You gotta go. Yeah. So but stick with it.

SPEAKER_01 32:07

And stick with it, and stick with it and know that it's as I I think I used the word earlier, it is a journey, and you get started and you'll see improvements as you go.

SPEAKER_00 32:15

But as you say, there's no downside, like it's a bit of time invested, and and I mean, I think if it's a not a good scenario, you probably know it as a client, but that might that might be a reason to not do one, but but it it can't, you know, there's no downside, it can be worse sort of thing.

SPEAKER_02 32:30

Yeah, yeah. My wife always says information's power, and I think a financial plan gives you that ultimate control. Absolutely, guys. This is a really interesting one. This is something that I feel very strongly about. So listening to both of you share your wisdom on this, but also your passion for the people side of this business. I think a great advisor, like I said before, has both IQ and EQ, and you both have both in spades. So thank you for this today. And thanks to everybody for joining us. I hope you found this conversation enlightening. I hope it's encouraged you to make some maybe decisions in your own life, whether you have a plan already and need to get it updated or need to get started. There's great advisors out there who help you with that, and uh they will help you with whatever you're facing. Whether you're embarrassed or optimistic, it doesn't matter. Just get started. And again, like Chris said, every plan is a success for a client, so start success soon. Thanks everybody for joining us today, and I'll look forward to dropping in on the next episode of partner with great people.